be about 5 to 7% lower, meaning those people in the exchange that needed a subsidy would take fewer tax dollars and it is also estimated that it would serve as an anchor, because there's competition, to bring down the cost of health care, even in the private sector as well. >> when is the government -- when is the government ever done that? with george bush's plan, you were critical and had a right to be for prescription drug benefit. the argument ises that it would drive down the cost of those drugs. if anything they have soared since that benefit came in because the government cannot act as a source of even buying in bulk for cutting prices. >> that's exactly right. and in fact i'm also supportive of legislation that would allow medicare, just leak the veterans administration to negotiate with the manufacturers, the drug companies, for lower drug prices. and i guess the point is that there are -- >> it doesn't work. didn't work in the case of drug prescriptions. if you were to expand this to care, what -- >> no, no. >> what is the chance you would get more bang for the buck? >> here's